Embracing imperfection in Perfect Pedro, with Simon Philip and Ella Okstad
About Author
Simon Philip and Ella Okstad talk about embracing imperfection in their picture book, Perfect Pedro (Oxford University Press).
Simon Philip lives in Chichester and studied history before becoming a primary school teacher, which rekindled his love of children's books, so he began writing his own. His books include You Must Bring a Hat and I Really Want the Cake. @siphilipstories
Ella Okstad is a Norwegian illustrator. She studied at Kent Institute of Art and Design and has illustrated books including the Squishy McFluff series. She enjoys spending time with her husband and three boys, good coffee and long walks. @ellaokstad
Interview
September 2025
Simon Philip and Ella Okstad embrace the messy joy of imperfection in Perfect Pedro
For the young perfectionists in your life who strive to do everything well, Perfect Pedro is the perfect picture book to show that things don't always have to be just right; creativity, fun and learning to laugh at your mistakes are also important. Author Simon Philip and illustrator Ella Okstad talk to ReadingZone about how stifling perfectionism can be; using humour to celebrate our differences; and how the illustrator brings depth to a story.
Review: "This is a thoroughly enjoyable read which has plenty to say to young readers. Sometimes imperfection is just perfect!"
In Perfect Pedro, Pedro wants everything to be just - well - perfect, so when he befriends Poppy, who does everything 'just so' too, he is sure he's found the perfect friend. But Poppy also likes to have fun, and laughs when things go wrong. Can they still be friends?
Q&A with Simon Philip and Ella Okstad: Exploring perfectionism in Perfect Pedro
"I hope that Perfect Pedro will provide some comfort (and perhaps even a bit of gentle guidance
and wisdom) to those children who struggle, like I did, with perfectionist tendencies."
1. How did you start your career in picture books for children? What kinds of books do you enjoy creating?
Simon: I began writing picture books after withdrawing from a Primary PGCE, as I realised that I was going to be better at writing books for children than I would ever be at teaching them - actually, that's stretching the truth a little, as I didn't really have a plan for what I was going to do next when I quit my teaching degree: I had lots of time on my hands, but little direction, and I needed some . . . fast.
Training to become a teacher rekindled my love of children's literature, particularly picture books, and having always loved writing as a hobby, I picked it up again. I realised almost immediately that writing was what I wanted to do for my job. I studied hundreds of picture books in my effort to become a better writer. It took me about six months to get an agent, and another four or five to get my first offer from a publisher. Somehow, I've just about managed to keep those offers coming in the 12-ish years since.
I think my books tend to have a mixture of humour and heart (although some are purely surreal and bonkers!), and if I can weave in a subtle message without it seeming 'preachy', then I'll aim to do that, too.
Ella: I started out as an illustrator after I finished my illustration degree in the UK exactly 25 years ago this year. I have always been fascinated by the magic of childrens books and that quickly became my path as an illustrator. I would describe my illustrations as lively, colorful, full of humour and a bit cheeky. My aim is to make the characters as engaging as possible to the reader.
2. What happens in your new book, Perfect Pedro?
Simon: Unfortunately for him, Pedro is a child blighted by the curse of perfectionism! He likes - no, needs - things to be perfect, even his friends. Which, of course, only causes problems. But with the help of Poppy, his new, initially-perfect-seeming friend, Pedro learns that perfection is not what it's cracked up to be, and that embracing imperfection is actually a lot more fun.
3. Why did you want to follow a child who wants to do everything perfectly - and were you a Pedro or a Poppy as a child?
Simon: Oh, I was most definitely a Pedro. I hate to say that I probably still am at times, even now, way into my thirties! I've worked hard on getting rid of my perfectionist tendencies, and I think writing for my job has helped with that; writing is so subjective that it's utterly impossible to please everyone with everything, so I accepted fairly early on that chasing perfection in one's writing is futile. But those tendencies do creep in from time to time, so I have to watch out for them.
I wanted to tackle perfectionism as a topic because although, culturally, it is often deemed to be a positive thing - a driver of excellence - in reality, it's actually the complete opposite: there's a lot of research that shows that perfectionism is quite dangerous, destructive and unhealthy. There is a strong link between perfectionistic tendencies and numerous psychological disorders. Perfectionism isn't a behaviour, as such, but a way of thinking about oneself: an overly-critical inner voice, which contributes to poor self-esteem, patterns of black-and-white, catastrophic thinking, feelings of frustration when things aren't perfect, and a fear of failure that prevents sufferers from fulfilling their potential.
I hope that Perfect Pedro will provide some comfort (and perhaps even a bit of gentle guidance and wisdom) to those children who struggle, like I did, with perfectionist tendencies, by showing them, through Pedro's experiences, that it's OK, and healthy - and ultimately better - not to be perfect (which is impossible, of course). And I think it's very important - particular for children, as early as possible - to recognise the difference between striving for excellence, and striving for perfection - because they are different. It's good to have high personal standards and to be hard-working and conscientious, so long as those positive traits are accompanied by self-compassion and a willingness to embrace the possibility of failure and to laugh at one's mistakes. I think Poppy exemplifies that combination in the book, and is exactly the sort of friend that someone like Pedro requires to support them and show them the way!
Ella: When reading Simon´s text for the first time, I immediately connected to it. the subject matter is very relatable and I love the way he has written it. It is perfectly normal not to be perfect! I think I was more of a Pedro growing up, but I can also relate to Poppy so perhaps I was a bit of both:)
4. Children often feel they need to get things just right - but was it a challenge to create a story around that and also keep it entertaining for young children?
Simon: Children absolutely feel that way - particularly when it comes to creative pursuits, I think. Some of my illustrator friends have mentioned to me that when they do draw-alongs with children, many are so preoccupied with making their drawings perfect that they get very upset when they make a mistake. And yes, it was a challenge to make a story about perfectionism entertaining for young children. The very first bit of feedback I got from my editor - this was before she'd even acquired the text - was that the humour needed ramping up, so achieving the balance of the finished story took quite a bit of work.
5. The story gives readers much to discuss around friendship and 'being perfect'. What would you like children to take from Poppy and Pedro's story and friendship?
Simon: I think Poppy and Pedro's friendship demonstrates what can be gained from having an open-minded approach to our differences, and what our friends might be able to teach us if we embrace them fully, as they are - imperfections and all.
6. This is your second book together following Let Me Do It. How closely do you work together on interpreting Simon's text, or do you wait and see Ella's illustrations?
Simon: I'd say that we haven't had to work together particularly closely on interpreting my texts, as Ella just seems to get them! I've always been a big fan of her books and artwork, and feel very lucky that we've been paired together. Ella's illustrations imbue the story with so much comedy and heart, beyond my words - and they look beautiful too, of course. I'm in awe of what she is capable of!
Ella: I love Simon`s stories! Once I recieve the text from Simon I get to interpret it my way, however our editor added a few descriptions regarding Pedro`s perfect hairdo early on. I get all the sketches ready and then we go through everything with our editor and make corrections.
7. Ella, what was your focus in illustrating Perfect Pedro? How did you want to portray each of the children and how do you make their characters clear to young children?
Ella: In all his perfectness Pedro had to have perfect looking clothes and very tidy hair. To give his hair that extra little touch there`s a perfect little curl in front. Then as he struggles with his hoola hoop routine his hair and clothes gets more and more disheveled. Poppy had to look quite the opposite. The tutu and untidy pony tails adds to her movements swirling around with her hoola hoops and making her even more lively and imperfect. I also wanted each spread to be boosting with colors and energy.
8. Do you have a favourite moment in the story / illustrations?
Simon: I think the moment where Poppy comes to Pedro's rescue is one of my favourites - that moment of true friendship and support - along with the final spread, in which they're contentedly and messily enjoying their dinner together. Having said that, I genuinely love Ella's illustrations throughout. Pedro's range of expressions is brilliant, as is the movement Ella has somehow got into all the hula-hooping scenes!
Ella: I think my favourite spread would be when Pedro discovers that Poppy dips her chips in MUSTARD! I love the look his face.
9. Are you working on another book together? Are there more stories to come for Pedro and Poppy? What are you working on currently?
Simon: We're not at the moment, but I'd love to in future - so I'd better dream up some more stories! I'm currently working on developing a young fiction idea, and keeping my fingers and toes crossed that at least a couple of the many manuscripts I have out on submission at the moment will find a home with publishers.
Ella: We are not currently working on another book together, but I would absolutely love to do more projects with Simon. I am currently working on a couple of Norwegian picture books that are due to publish next year.
10. And what keeps you busy when you're away from your desk / studio? Where do you like to go to find quieter moments?
Simon: My daughter will be two in November, so she keeps me pretty busy when I'm not at my desk! I also try to spend time in the lovely countryside that I'm lucky enough to have nearby, as well as seeing friends or playing golf.
Ella: I love spending time with the rest of my gang (my husband and three big boys). - Taking our dog Lucy for long walks in the forest is also something I enjoy doing. It clears my head after a long day at my desk.
Perfect Pedro
