Counting Cats with Jonathan Emmett & Rob Hodgson
About Author
Jonathan Emmett and Rob Hodgson introduce One Cat, Two Cats, their novelty counting book that helps children count to 20.
Jonathan Emmett was an architect before becoming a children's author and novelty book designer. He's written over 60 books, including Alphabet Street and Bringing Down the Moon. He likes building things, playing games and solving puzzles. jonathanemmett.com
Rob Hodgson lives in Bristol where he spends his days making a mess and turning it into quality illustration projects and books. His work often explores play, texture, character design and interactivity.
Interview
August 2025
Counting Cats with Jonathan Emmett & Rob Hodgson (Nosy Crow)
Meet a host of colourful chaotic cats in One Cat, Two Cats by Jonathan Emmett and Rob Hodgson. Lift the flaps and watch these cuddly creatures slide, glide and jump their way from one to 20!
Jonathan and Rob tell ReadingZone what gives the story its classic feel, and how the novelty elements in One Cat, Two Cats will help keep children entertained, turning the pages - and learning to count from one to 20.
Q&A with Jonathan Emmett & Rob Hodgson: Helping Children Learn to Count with One Cat, Two Cats
"20 is a big number for some preschoolers to count up to, so the novelty elements are there to
encourage children to keep going right to the end." Jonathan Emmett
1. Thank you for joining us on ReadingZone! Can you tell us a little about yourselves and what kinds of books do you enjoy creating? Any stand-out moments in your creative careers to date?
Jonathan: I originally trained and worked as an architect, but used to write and illustrate children's stories in my own time. 30 years ago I made the jump into children's books and have never looked back. I don't illustrate any more, but a lot of my storytelling has a strong visual element, so picture books are a good fit for me and have given me the opportunity to work with some very talented illustrators like Rob.
A recent standout moment for me was The Tyrannosaur's Feathers, a factual picture book I wrote with my palaeontologist friend Adam Smith, winning Animals & Nature Book of the Year at The Week Junior Book Awards. Adam and I are relative newcomers to the crowded world of dinosaur books, and it was illustrator Stieven Van der Poorten's first children's book, so it was great to get that level of recognition.
Rob: I got into working in books after a great kids book agent reached out as a fan of my artwork and sent me a giant mailbag full of books and suggested I try making a picture book work. I love silly books that are simple and clever at the same time. That could be the story or the way the book is made (with pop ups or googley eyes or whatever it may be!). I also love science and nature books.
A stand out moment for me was when the first book I wrote and illustrated, The Cave, was chosen by Booktrust's Time To Read campaign and given away free to every kid starting school in the UK. That was a lot of books.
2. What happens in your new book, One Cat Two Cats?
Jonathan: The book is crammed with a growing number of characterful cats and lots of fun pop-up and lift-the-flap surprises.
Rob: Yes there are a lot of cats. Too many cats some might say. Cats of every type - fluffy cats, stripy cats, even a green cat. These cats get into mischief and laze around town, growing in number with every page.
3. Did you set out to write a counting book? How are young children encouraged to reach 20?
Jonathan: The inspiration for this book came when I was working on Number Train, another counting book for Nosy Crow. Nosy Crow's Sales Manager asked if I could make that book count up to 20 as some booksellers had mentioned that customers were asking for this. I didn't want to do this with Number Train, but the request prompted me to write a text for a counting book that did.
20 is a big number for some preschoolers to count up to, so the novelty elements are there to encourage children to keep going right to the end. And the numbered collars the cats wear bring an engaging "can you spot" aspect to the counting process, challenging children to find and count each cat in the correct order.
4. The text has a classic feel to it, but it's incredibly hard to write a 'simple' text that will have lots of child appeal. Why do you think it works so well?
Jonathan: Most rhyming counting books that go up to ten use a one-number-per-line rhyme structure. For example Number Train starts: ONE cheerful cheetah, racing down the track. TWO hungry hippos, munching on a snack. This structure works well up to ten as all but one of the numbers have one syllable, and the two-syllable number - seven - almost sounds like a single syllable. However, once you go beyond ten, you have to include two or three syllable numbers which break the rhythm set up by the earlier numbers.
To get around this problem, One Cat, Two Cats uses a more flexible rhyme structure, where numbers can fit into different places in each line. It's based on the structure used in the traditional counting rhyme One Potato, Two Potato, but with fewer syllables in each line. And, while the potato rhyme stops at seven, I took the cats rhyme up to twenty by adding three additional verses. I think it's the similarity to One Potato, Two Potato that gives the text a classic feel.
5. A simple text can also put more pressure on the illustrator. What was it that drew you to illustrating this picture book? . . .And do you like drawing cats?!
Rob: I saw Jonathan's great video he had made of the prototype of the book with all the pop-ups and lift-flaps. I knew at that moment he was either a mad genius or a paper wizard, possibly both. Plus, cats, which I love to draw.
6. How did you decide to approach the illustrations and keep young readers engaged?
Rob: I knew I wanted the cats to be really varied and fun, some being regular(ish) looking cats, others a bit more fantastical. I think there being lots of different cat personalities to follow throughout the book adds to the fun of counting them all.
7. As you've mentioned, there are lots of novelty flaps and elements for children to discover as they turn the pages. What kinds of challenges do these bring for the creators - and what do you feel they add to the reader's experience?
Jonathan: Pop-up books have to be assembled by hand, which makes them far more costly to produce than ordinary picture books. The more folds and glue-points I put in, the more expensive the book is to produce, so every time I add one, I have to think, is this increasing the book's appeal?
The novelty elements allow young readers to take control of the storytelling experience, by lifting a flap to find the next cat and the next line of text or turning a page to make a new scene pop-up in front of them.
Rob: Trying to figure out which bit of the flaps and pop up bits to draw on and where and how it would all fit together was a challenge. Luckily Jonathan is very prepared and had a prototype of the book, and also the good people at Nosy Crow helped a lot with the design and how it all would work. Seeing it finished was a real joy and also came with a sense of relief that everything worked as it should! I love a novelty pop-up.
8. We have so many favourite spreads here, from cats squished into bookcases to kitties leaping across walls. What are yours?
Jonanthan: My favourite is the 'Eighteen chasing rats' spread. It feels like the cats are spilling out of the book into the real world.
Rob: I love the 'cats chasing rats' page best, too. I think the pop-up works really well and we get to see most of the cats from the book in a satisfying chase. I also really like the cats on the steps, especially the one lying on its side… I don't know why but that one makes me smile.
9. These cats look like a mischievous bunch - do you have any further adventures planned for them? What are you creating currently?
Jonathan: We don't have any plans for further cat books, but I have already written and paper-engineered One Dog, Two Dogs and Rob is currently illustrating it.
Rob: I think it's wise I don't draw another cat for a little while as I think I have gone over my yearly allowance of cat drawings . . . But if you like this book, and dogs, then wait and see...! I am also working on a book about monsters and moods which I've written and I'm excited about and should be out late next year.
10. What are your favourite places and things to do to get more inspiration when you're away from your studio or notebook?
Jonathan: I get most of my inspiration from other media: books, TV shows, films and even video games. So I spend a lot of time reading or watching a screen. When I'm not doing this, I like to get out and about, cycling and walking.
Rob: My favourite way to get more inspiration is swimming in the sea and baking bread. Not at the same time.
One Cat, Two Cats: A lift-the-flap, pop-up book with 20 cats to count!
